The Data Diva E206 - Lisa Manns and Debbie Reynolds

Debbie Reynolds, "The Data Diva" talks to Lisa Manns, CEO of Authenticid. We discuss her personal journey as a CEO and parent, the profound impact of technology on her family, and the challenges of parenting in the digital age. She highlights her son's early exposure to inappropriate online content, emphasizing the need for vigilance and responsible role modeling.

Lisa Manns discusses recognizing children's creativity and developing solutions for a safer environment. She addresses the impact of immediate gratification on children's safety and the responsibility of schools to ensure third-party apps comply with COPA and FERPA regulations. Manns encourages parents to proactively understand threats to their children's privacy and the implications of data exposure on platforms like the dark web.

Drawing from personal experience, Lisa Manns highlights the issue of minors lying about their age online. She introduces Authentikid, a system providing authentic keys to minors for free, used with Authentilocks at schools to enhance security and streamline access. She outlines plans to expand Authentilocks to corporations, enabling them to verify user age groups, obtain parental consent, and control access based on age-appropriate criteria.

Lisa Manns and Debbie Reynolds discuss the implications of the Children's Online Safety Act (COSA) and COPPA 2.0 on companies' design elements, privacy policies, and parental consent for minors. They emphasize the need for companies to understand their target age groups and adapt policies accordingly. They express concerns about the prescriptive nature of age verification laws and their potential impact on online anonymity and freedom of speech, particularly regarding minors' access to adult content. They also touch on the challenges of parental consent, the risks associated with minors uploading personal identification to access online platforms, and her hope for Data Privacy in the future.

Transcript

[00:00] Debbie Reynolds: The personal views expressed by our podcast guests are their own and are not legal advice or official statements by their organizations. Hello. My name is Debbie Reynolds. They call me the data Diva. This is the data diva talks privacy podcast, where we discuss data privacy issues with industry leaders around the world with information the businesses need to know. Now, I have a very special guest on the show, all the way from Florida, Lisa Manz. She is the chief executive officer of authenticate. Welcome.

[00:36] Lisa Manns: Thank you, Debbie. I appreciate you having me on.

[00:39] Debbie Reynolds: Well, it's not fair. You're on here on the show, almost like we don't know each other, but you and I, we chatted on LinkedIn. We asked, we had another phone chat, and it was great. Like, I feel like these are the best discussions where I feel like we could have recorded, like, our initial talk, and that could have been a podcast. But absolutely, I was really fascinated by you and the work that you do with authenticate and some of your thoughts and ideas around privacy. It's such a hard issue around children. But give me your background story in terms of how you became chief executive officer of authenticate.

[01:20] Lisa Manns: Sure. So I think, you know, every. Every CEO, every founder, every visionary has an interesting story. So mine is rooted, really. It started 30 years ago. And I'll interject and say that five years ago, if you would have told me, or six years ago, really now, if you would have told me that I'd be doing this podcast right here and talking about the things that we're about to discuss, I'd have laughed at you 30 years ago. I became a mom this year, and my family grew up as the Internet took, you know, took growth and became what it is today, back in the days of MySpace and. And even earlier with just little chat rooms. And I've seen it all. And really, my kids, who, my youngest is now 13, my eldest will be 30 this year. They've taught me more than any book or any leader, really, I think, could have. I think we gravely underestimate our kids in regards to their understanding of technology, which makes them dangerous to a degree, because they, especially as they're tweens and teens, they get that Dunning Kruger effect, where they know enough, but they don't know what they don't know, but they think that they know everything, you know. So that's a whole other podcast, Debbie. That's a whole other podcast. But being a parent, my eldest was extremely smart. In second grade. He was reading at a college level, and the teacher said, I don't know. We don't know what we're going to do with him. So they put him in front of a computer. And my first experience with inappropriate images on a computer happened when he was in third grade. It was back in the day of pop ups, right? Pop up ads. He had chicken pox and he was so smart. If anybody's a gamer, there was this great game that still exists today that people play and it had a book that was like this thicken and he had broke the spine. On day two of being home with Chickenpox and day three or four, I came down to check my email on the family computer. That was in the cause. We only had one back then. We didn't have a whole bunch of mobile devices. Went to the living room, check. And I said, holy crud, what is this? And I grabbed my husband at the time and said, what are you doing? My mother's here. What are you looking mine when I go to bed, you know. And I let into him come to find out, we checked the history and it was my son. And what we believe happened is that he clicked on the wrong pop up but he was exposed to it. And then all of a sudden, because he was extremely intelligent, he was typing in words that he could put together. Because 910 year old boys know more than they should about certain things and they talk on the bus. And I mean, it wasn't that long ago that I remember. We have to remember. Even though we might have different roles and we have different hats on all day, as a parent, as a CEO, we are still responsible to role model good behavior in front of minors at any time. And I do my best to live my life as if my children have a body cam on me at all times. Now, am I perfect? No. But in those situations he, you know, he put words together and he was finding all kinds of stuff. And so we had, I mean, we had to, you know, we took computer time away and he had a gaming console. We learned as our kids learned how to. Because I remember as a teenager then he got in trouble on a game on a computer. He got in trouble at school and nothing major or anything, but we took away the computers. Well, he got online on the gaming console. I mean, there was always a way, right? So we have to stop underestimating our kids because they're creative and we have to start really thinking like them and developing solutions. I believe in being a solutionist. I don't. I think that while we sit there and we talk about the problems because that's important, but talking about them with no end resolution and no solution does nothing to further improve the environment that we've created. And it's up to us. It's our job. We created this environment. We created the lack of patience, the immediate gratification environment. And I have kind of used Walmart as a verb because you can't be Walmart in life, that everything is cheap and replaceable and accessible and now just be delivered to your home, I mean, and put away for you with their delivery service, they'll come in and put your groceries away now. So, you know, we've created that environment out of convenient desire for convenience. So we need to hold ourselves accountable to come up with solutions that will make it a safer environment. I don't, I don't complain about convenience because I like convenient. I think everybody likes convenient. But I also want to, I want to make sure. It's kind of like when you choose food, are you going to choose a nutritious, healthy meal every day and one day of McDonald's, or are you going to choose McDonald's every day out of convenience and tank your health? I'll be the first one to tell you I'll eat a piece of chocolate cake, but I'll, if I'm baking it, it's going to be a chocolate beet cake because I'm going to sink a vegetable in there. I grew up learning about things through my kids vicariously. I remember learning from my son about Omegle because at 15, he thought it was okay to ask me because we were a very open household, a very communicative household. I don't believe in major censorship. I believe everything, especially music. Let's have a conversation. I use everything as a conversation tool. So he said to me one day, he was, I think, 1516. He goes, hey, mom, do you know what a meat spin is? Before anybody does it, don't google it. Don't go look it up. You don't want to know. I found out and I immediately got onto the issues of, hey, I'm the adult that bought that device. Hey, I could be held accountable for you looking at this information. Hey, do you know as a minor that that could send me to jail? That, because we're seeing that now. We're seeing parents being held accountable for the actions of their minor children up until 17 years, eleven months, not just financially, but criminally. So we have to be mindful about that. And as CEO's, we have to be mindful of that potential for our customer base. Because without having verifiable, accurate age verification for minors, not adults, but for minors, we run major risks of all kinds of stuff with minors on there, predatory behaviors, third party corporations sending advertising materials for credit cards, for loans. And I could talk about content for days.

[10:12] Debbie Reynolds: Well, there are two things I want to talk with you about. One is, well, first of all, we have an international audience, and I think, you know, we're seeing a lot of laws being passed around the world around age verification. Right. And so I think us, we have a very unique problem with age verification. So I think just having a patchwork of laws, different states think they want to do age verification a different way. Some of the kids that they're trying to verify don't have identification. Right. First of all, tell me about the challenge. What makes age verification challenging in the US?

[10:57] Lisa Manns: How many hours do we have? So nationally, it's really the same types of challenges that we have internationally. Right. Because you've got multiple. For example, let's talk about Europe, because there's a whole bunch of countries, they all have their own rules, but they at least could unite under GDPR for the most part. Right here in the states, you've got federal law, and then you've got state law, and then you may have splinters of different federal laws in some states, but not all states because they don't adopt everything. My favorite example is bipa, because bipa triggers. So much for coppa. Once someone had, nine times out of ten, once a company gets hit for a bit violation, it automatically triggers a copa violation because they've collected biometric information on a minor that did not have verifiable prior parental consent. Those are the really big key words, verifiable prior parental consent. We just saw a very big lawsuit settled right in Texas with meta. You know, there's, and I'm not trying to poke the bear today with all of the money that's been made with data. Some of that money needs to go towards protecting these kids from the damage that's already happened over the last two decades. You have kids who, who have sustained the damage that we're seeing the repercussions of now in teenagers 20 years ago, and those kids are having babies now. So we're, we're reaching what, what Gardner referred to as the app directed generation because there's an app for everything. And part of the, part of the anxiety issues that are coming up is because if there isn't a nap for that, they don't know how to navigate through life. So we have to start to really take the reins and balance that digital life, real life. Take those digital cleanses as a family, because if you're not role modeling the behavior, you can't. You can't live life as a hypocrite. This generation is not the same. They are not afraid to tell you you're being a hypocrite right to your face at all. As a mom of a 13 year old, I will tell you right now, she has no issue. She is her mother's daughter, and she hates hearing that. But, I mean, today. Today.

[14:05] Debbie Reynolds: Well, so the way that companies have traditionally tried to handle age verification has been kind of a tick box exercise. So. Hey, you boxed? Yeah. Check out. I swear, I pinky swear, I'm over 13. So there are two things, in my view, that are happening that are just disconnected. So one is that children can get online, or they click a box and say, I swear, I'm, you know, under this age, and then they can do whatever. Right. But then. So the companies don't really know how old a person is or who or they are who they say that they are. But then we have schools that actually curate data and information about students who are in school, how old they are, and all that other type of stuff. And so those two systems don't work together.

[15:03] Lisa Manns: They don't. And here's why you've got. There are a couple of things that parents and most people don't know, either. First of all, Coppa does not necessarily apply to schools and school districts directly, but it does apply to any of the third party apps or, like, the edtech apps, et cetera, that they utilize. The schools have to make sure they do their due diligence and that those companies are COPA compliant on top of FERPA compliant. And most schools don't do that. And I'm not trying to say anything to, you know, offend any schools. I just. I have done my research on things. The other thing is, is that when you go into register your students every year, you know, kindergarten roundup, it's a milestone. Everybody goes in. You've, you know, moved to a new school district. You register for the new year, you sign over the rights to. To the schools for the data that they create at the school. So it's the school's responsibility to protect the data. And a lot of people go, okay, well, what is the data? The data is anything that they enter, anything they do at the school. So it goes from all of the registration paperwork down to, because they're assigned a student number. Most people don't realize that when they create a Gmail account during their digital citizenship class. Well, that's usually some form of something with their student number, which we all know is a big no no because that's directly using PII, but because it's easier and nobody knows that that's their student number. That's what they use. And it might involve, like, their, you know, three of their initials or something else, but that's still using PII, and it's not safe because if somebody picks up that email, they can track all that PII, all that personally, personally identifiable information, their. Their name, their age, their birth date, their Social Security number, which is now in school records. Cause it didn't used to be asked for. Now it is their home address, their emergency contacts, the address of the emergency contacts. Let's talk about HIPAA, because now we're going to cross over into HIPAA for personal information because all of their medical records are there, who their doctor is, who their dentist is. We're going to talk about what they checked out in the library. So imagine if your child's personal data was all bubble wrapped like an ornament for Christmas, right? So in that ornament is going to be all of the information I've already listed, plus all of their likes from the school library and what they ate for lunch for the last two years. So if somebody picked up that package on the dark web, how easy do you think it would be for them to pull your kid? They know all their likes. They know. They know what groups to go into. Like, if they're. If they checked Harry Potter out of the library 19 times in the last three years, you think they're going to join a Facebook group about Harry Potter and for potter heads because your kid might be in there, other data that they're going to find. How are they doing in school? What are their classes? Should I. Should I say, oh, I tutor on the side? Oh, well, I could really use this. I bet you could. You know, in these situations, you have to think like a predator. As a parent, this is another hat you have to put on. And let's, again, not underestimate kids. Kids are not telling the truth when they go online. My, you know, again, mom of six, grandma of eight. So I have a little bit of experience here. My third born child will turn 26 if I let him breathe long enough this December. Bless his heart. Let me say that again. But he has profiles that make him look like he's 34 because when he was a teenager, that's what he did. He lied about his age. When he was young, he lied about his age. I think he was like eleven or twelve when he started getting on his social media. I know he was 15 and a half lying on dating apps about his age, and that's how he met his wife. So, you know, he was lucky that he didn't meet someone else, you know? Yeah, but, you know, we can't look, and I think I said this to you on our phone conversation, if somebody stops by and says, hey, you look fantastic. What are you, 45? I will say thank you, and keep it moving. It is human nature to lie about your age. I remember being 13, my parents took me on a cruise on NCL, and we all sat at the big table, you know, in the restaurant, and I coming over was another couple of families, and they had kids that were from 16 to 18. Guess what? I lied about my age because I wanted to hang out with the cool kids, the older kids. That's human nature. So we have to start taking that into account.

[20:55] Debbie Reynolds: Right? Right. Oh, my goodness. Well, tell me about authenticate, and what. What is your unique thing that your company does?

[21:04] Lisa Manns: Okay, so what we're doing is we are, first of all, we have authentic keys that we're going to be giving away to minors for free. And those keys will go to authentilocks, which will be at schools. And the purpose for the locks in that. In that situation, the keys will be. Will act as a. An MFA, a multi factor authentication piece, and will help them build an SSO, because a lot of schools are moving over to SSO because too many points of, you know, too many entry points allows for too many opportunities for, you know, a cyber attack. So moving over to an SSO.

[21:51] Debbie Reynolds: Yeah, same. I just want to sink single sign on just for people who don't understand what that is.

[21:57] Lisa Manns: So that's one of the uses for the authentilock. But when it comes to once we have enough students on board, what will happen is the authentilock will then get an upgrade and it will be turned for corporations, so that corporations will then, when the key is presented, they will then get the age group of the user. No Pii, but they'll get the age group. Our age groups currently sit at zero to five, six to 910 to 1213 to 15, and 16 years to 17 years, eleven months. Young workers aged. The reason I created them that way is because of GDPR and Coppa being two different ages, but that, you know, ten to 15 year age group. Those two groups are. Are Wiley. So you kind of. And we wanted to kind of stair step it so that we have. So we have some enhanced AI, where it asks behavioral questions and social questions to kind of get an idea of the ages, you know, like I told you, you know, what happens at the end of a first date, you know, and it'll be interesting to see what the questions are, how they're answered socially, emotionally, intellectually, you know, there could be a box which could be identified by kindergartner as red, maybe maroon or burgundy from an older child, a different, you know, a different word for the same color. And maybe it would be called a cube instead of a box or a square. But we use enhanced AI to discern the age group, but it already knows the age group because it's assigned initially at the schools. So which is, I'm still very happy with that. So when it goes to the corporations and the corporation says, hey, this is a ten to twelve year old, they then will have the opportunity to deny access, completely open access, but receive verifiable prior parental consent because they'll be asked, do you want to continue? And then there'll be a deployment, you know, from, you know, the kid putting in the email address to the parents to get prior parental consent. They will then have the opportunity to augment reality. So if somebody were to step into a game, because we saw that, you know, a lot of us saw the stories about, you know, walking into bars or walking into strip clubs. And no, not a ten to twelve year old, that's not appropriate. They'll have the ability to not allow that anymore. So it's open access, deny access, augment access, or limit access. So they can say, okay, these content triggers are not age appropriate. This language is not age appropriate. And it'll give parents the ability to work with companies. Because I am a big believer in a community driven, grown, positive future for the next generation. You can't just say, oh, where, because we hear it all the time with the news stories, right? Where were the parents, where were the teachers? Where was the owner of the building? What person manufactured the vehicle or whatever the incident was based around, right? Because I don't want to use that other three letter word, the weapon, right? Everybody's so busy pointing fingers instead of joining hands. I think that's key, right? Because if we create a safety net together, it's, we're going to create a better future. I don't believe in necessarily taking away. I think we need to balance using devices. But kids have so many different devices now, they're always plugged in. It could be a watch, it could be a phone, it could be a laptop, it could be earbuds with an ipod or whatever. There's all kinds of stuff that they're plugged into all the time. You've got video game systems. There's all kinds of wearables, right? You've got the Internet of things where they're just always plugged in. And it's the. Yes, it's like Gartner said, you know, it's the app directed generation. They like being. They like labels. They like having directions. They like boundaries, especially if they created the boundaries. Yeah, it's tricky. Cause it's new in a lot of cases for us. But, you know, I think we need to teach kids delayed gratification because we've lost that by creating all this convenience a lot, because we don't have to wait. I mean, look at streaming video, right? We don't have to watch a commercial if we don't want to. Kids can watch cartoons 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I only got it on Saturday morning until 1130, and then I got American Bandstand, **** Clark. So we are not the same. Like, and I think we kind of need to get back to that. And every generation is the same, but they're different. It's just, it, I remember my grandparents saying to my parents, is she gonna watch tv all the time, or is she gonna come talk to us? Well, of course I would talk to them. But I also want, you know, if I had a chance to watch the tv because I didn't get the God box. Dad had the God box on the weekends, right. And during the week, we only had five channels back then. So, you know, he was in charge of the tv at 07:00 after dinner. So, you know, I never got to pick anything. We were considered to be addicted to tv, just like we say that these kids are addicted to phones and addicted to social media. Now, there's a lot more psychology that's gone into this, but I also think that there's a lot more psychology that went into the cartoons and tv shows and. And those kinds of things. When I was a kid, it just evolved. It constantly evolves, especially as we add more and more of the psychology into it. So we had giving companies the information. This is the age group you're working with right here. This end user is in this age group. They can then look at their individual state laws and say, okay, we granted, the AADCA is gone right now, and that's the age appropriate design code. It was in California, and now it's a. It's been taken away, but obviously, with Xhosa there are design elements that the AADCA brought to light that that's going to be a federal law. States are going to come through and say the same thing in different ways, but they need to know the age to rewrite those privacy policies, those community standards, behavioral standards, so that kids can understand them. That's a design element. That's a, that's a content element.

[29:39] Debbie Reynolds: Before we get too far, why don't you talk a little bit about Xhosa? Because that was, that's a new development that happened recently.

[29:46] Lisa Manns: Oh, yeah. With, with Cosa and Copa 2.0 being cast. Well, what is, what is copyright?

[29:55] Debbie Reynolds: What is Kosa?

[29:57] Lisa Manns: It is the children's online Safety act. So that is, that, that's specifically going to talk about design elements and, you know, the dark, the dark patterns so that people stay on longer, types of advertising that minors can see why. Just a wide variety of things. In regards to design, I have to get really deep into it, and I don't, I don't study too deeply of a law and start translating until it's past both the House and the Senate. It's been signed because we'll see 65 versions between now and the time it comes out. Right. For example, Coppa 2.0 has been sitting on the, on the, on the table since before I started even pondering this company in 2019. Just to give you an idea of how long it takes for these things to go through and how many different rewrites there are, Copa 2.0 makes me a little nervous. And you might say why? Well, there's an element in there, or there was, that allowed 15 year olds to turn off their location without or deny their parents the ability to track their location on their phones. I'm going to wait for the interpretation. I'm going to wait for the final result of the law. But that does concern me because then, now we're. Because in that case, we're giving minors, no, I would just pull the phone. Right. You know, I just pulled the phone. But not every family can do that because you've got single parent families and maybe the other parent bought the phone. And so then there's a whole. Yeah, it can just be a mess, but there's things that, that need to be addressed in there. But, you know, in every law. There is in every law.

[31:58] Debbie Reynolds: Yeah, totally. You know, things like PG 13 and clicking the box where it's 13 is going to be a whole different ballgame. And I think this is going to create more complexity for the user and a lot more work for the parenthood.

[32:10] Lisa Manns: Right.

[32:10] Debbie Reynolds: Because, you know, these companies want to have proof that the parent is somehow.

[32:15] Lisa Manns: Involved in these verifiable parental consent. Yeah. And they're supposed to keep a log of that. They're supposed to keep a log of that. The interesting thing in conversation with my kids as well is that Copa has created this, this false sense of maturity and independence in late tweens, early teens at 13. Because I'm 13 now, I can get online. No, they just can now collect your data. Let me, let me explain. We're not doing a good enough job of explaining that law. We're doing a great job of talking to kids about how to talk to other people online. We've been talking to each other online. You know, we don't always talk to people the way we should talk to them online, just like kids are going to do that, too. It's that whole hypocrisy and transparency thing and holding ourselves accountable. We have to think like that. We have to think if the law says I can be online and we have to be mindful about when we speak about it, because I've heard industry leaders talk about the fact that the law allows kids to be online at 13. That's not what Copa's about. Coppa says after age 13, your children's data can be collected without parental consent. That's not allowing them online or on the platform. There is a big difference. But when we don't watch the words we use, it gets perpetuated into that belief system, and that can be dangerous because these 13 year olds, I got one.

[34:17] Debbie Reynolds: One thing that concerns me that I think is going to be challenged, and that is kind of the overly prescriptive nature of some of these age verification laws. You know, they're trying to say like, oh, if you go into a bar and you want to buy a beer, you know, they serve alcohol, you have to show your id at the door. So then for certain sites, if they have certain adult content, they think that everyone should upload their id. And it's like that happens. Like the Internet would just go down. Like people, like, I'm not going to give, you know, you think, how many times are you going to give your id to websites? That's ridiculous.

[34:53] Lisa Manns: Yeah. No. First of all, when people talked about adding fingerprints to your id at the DMV, people lost their everloving minds. So if people for 1 second think that they're going to upload their government granted id cardinal to what I consider a taboo site, which is in my adult brain, the no, no. Sites that you don't want anyone knowing that you go to. Right. Why are you going to give. No, that takes away the anonymity. But now, instead of saying it that way, people go, oh, freedom of speech, first amendment. It has nothing to do with that. You don't want to be, you don't want to be caught on a list of people who verified for being on that platform under whatever anonymous name you gave yourself. I mean, be honest. Be honest. That's, you know, that's. That's the kicker. I just. That's my thing. Be honest. It's, you know, I don't ask for much. Just be honest. Yeah. Our kids are getting into things because, and again, let's be honest. How hard is it for a kid when I'm on a phone call, like, I'm on this podcast right now? Do I know where my wallet is? I have an idea. Do. Am I looking at it? No. How easy is it for my kid to go snag my id and go upload it to Pornhub?

[36:33] Debbie Reynolds: Right.

[36:33] Lisa Manns: Can I also just add that that squirrely third child that I. That I am glad I have not named for fun once a year, typically, he goes on to one of those types of taboo sites and subscribes me to a newsletter. These are my children. They think they're funny. They got jokes. Okay.

[36:54] Debbie Reynolds: Oh, my goodness.

[36:55] Lisa Manns: Oh, yeah. I love every single one of them. I wouldn't trade them for the world. I. But usually that's my. Huh. I better give him a call.

[37:04] Debbie Reynolds: Oh, my.

[37:06] Lisa Manns: We must not have spoken last week or two.

[37:08] Debbie Reynolds: Oh, my goodness.

[37:11] Lisa Manns: Well, yeah.

[37:12] Debbie Reynolds: They're who, if it were the world according to you, Lisa, and we did everything you said, what would be your wish for privacy anywhere in the world, whether that be regulation, human behavior, or.

[37:25] Lisa Manns: Technology, to make the world a better place. We need a balance of all three. We need a balance of all three. Technology doesn't just mean the device is in our hands. And we have to remember that it's important for us to regulate our own selves and teach our children how to regulate their selves. Like I talked about, teaching your child delayed gratification, teaching your childhood to regulate their own schedule and take breaks and go do something different. And yes, there's apps for that, and it's okay to be app directed if you need that. But take that family digital cleanse. You talk about regulation. You talk about human behavior. We model that behavior. And what we do today affects the next generation and the next generation. So it's important for us to role model that behavior today to create a better future for the generations of tomorrow and then, and those to come. And technology is just going to keep getting bigger. The people who want to fight technology are the ones that are going to be behind. There's no question in my mind about it. I think that the ideas of the phones in the sacks, that's a band aid, people. That's a band aid. I welcome it and I appreciate and I understand where it comes from, but that's a band aid. What we need to be teaching kids is how to self regulate. We need to be teaching kids how to be present in the moment and again, delayed gratification where they can. And that, you know what? I don't care if people like me. I like me. It's more important to teach your child that if they can, every single day, get up and look themselves in the eye in the mirror every single day, that is what matters, because you don't have to sleep with anyone else for the rest of your life. You have to sleep with you. That's advice for my mom, my dad. There's no saturation point to knowledge, so technology isn't going to stop. We have to start integrating all three of those. Regulation human behavior and technology.

[39:59] Debbie Reynolds: That's a great answer. I love it. Very human centered answer. I think that's the way we should be going. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm really excited to be able to talk with you and have you on the show, and I'm sure everyone would be really excited. What's the best way for people to get in touch with you and learn about authenticate?

[40:18] Lisa Manns: Definitely through the authenticate website. Definitely. My email, lisapid.com. you can follow me on Twitter, on LinkedIn. You can Lisa. Man, six is usually my handle everywhere. Again, mom of six. So, yeah, we're on Facebook, and I've got this great little community I've been building on Facebook called Leap, which stands for leading, empowering and protecting children? Leap, they're leapers. It's a group of parents and c suite executives and educators that are creating a community together to protect kids on and offline.

[40:59] Debbie Reynolds: That's excellent. I love your efforts, and I'm really excited about the things you're doing. So really happy that you're on the show. We'll talk soon for sure.

[41:08] Lisa Manns: Absolutely. And, Debbie, one more thing that I want to put out there. I just recently finished writing a children's book. It is the ABCs of blockchain technology. It will be available before Christmas. I am super excited to share that I didn't understand blockchain like I told you, and we laughed about it. Five years ago, I barely knew where the on button was for my computer. And now I'm writing because I think the earlier we teach kids terminology and we make it fun, they don't even think that they're learning and we're talking about the Alphabet. This is going to get right into their. Into their wheelhouse. It's going to be fantastic. But I'm excited. That'll be out before Christmas.

[41:54] Debbie Reynolds: That'll be exciting. Thank you so much for sharing that.

[41:58] Lisa Manns: Not a problem.

[42:01] Debbie Reynolds: Well, I'm excited about what you're doing and I'm really excited that you were able to join me for the show. So, yeah, we'll definitely talk soon. So thank you so much again.

[42:10] Lisa Manns: Absolutely. Thanks, Debbie. I appreciate it. Any cool people that are looking to talk to us about authenticated and get your kids authentic keys, definitely reach out.

[42:18] Debbie Reynolds: Perfect. Perfect. We'll talk soon for sure. Thank you so much.

[42:22] Lisa Manns: Thanks, Debbie.